0:00:00.9 Louie Marven: Welcome to Resource on the Go, a podcast from the National Sexual Violence Resource Center, on understanding, responding to and preventing sexual abuse and assault. My name is Louie Marven and I'm the Training Specialist at the National Sexual Violence Resource Center. This podcast is part of our male survivor series.

0:00:19.1 LM: Today, Leigh Ann Davis and James Meadours join me for a conversation on working with male survivors of sexual assault who have disabilities. Leigh Ann is the Director of Criminal Justice Initiatives at The Arc of the United States, overseeing The Arc's National Center on Criminal Justice and Disability. And James is a board member on Texas Advocates and a national advocate for healing from sexual assault and the rights of people with intellectual disabilities.

[music]

0:01:02.5 LM: Thanks for joining us, Leigh Ann and James, I wanna start by asking about something called the Talk About Sexual Violence Project, which involves educating healthcare providers to be able to talk with men with disabilities about sexual assault. So could you talk about the project and what your involvement has been? Leigh Ann, would you get us started?

0:01:24.2 Leigh Ann Davis: Sure. And thank you so much, Louie, for having us today. We are thrilled to be here to talk about this important issue. But just to give you a little bit of background on how this project came to be, James and I actually have been working together for over two decades and first met when I came to The Arc back in 1994, to work on criminal justice issues and James was actually a board member at that time. And we both discovered we were survivors. And this really lit a passion within both of us, as we realized that we didn't even have data on how often people with intellectual or developmental disabilities were being victimized in our country. In fact, we had to go out to Canada to even start getting some numbers around sexual victimization and just victimization in general. So that was a huge wake up call back in the mid-'90s, that we really had to do more around this topic.

0:02:27.5 LD: And so from that, we started talking about, how do we bring this issue to the masses? And the sort of disability issues were already unseen in our community. And we thought, well, how do we bring that plus sexual victimization, which can be even harder, and then if you add males, who are victimized, who have intellectual and developmental disabilities, it just seems to be almost impossible. And in fact, when we would even go out to different conferences and try to bring this issue out, we might have five people in the room early on. So, this has not been a popular subject over the past couple of decades. But with the Me Too movement, and with more openness to really seeing how prevalent this is in our society, but then how much more so for people with intellectual and developmental disabilities, we knew it was time to look for funding that would bring this issue to the forefront.

0:03:36.1 LD: And I don't know if your listeners are aware, but people with intellectual and developmental disabilities are sexually assaulted at seven times the rate of people without disabilities. This is unbelievable, really. I mean when we think about that number and also how often we don't have services for individuals with disabilities or people aren't provided accommodations, it's a huge lack. And what's great about the Talk About Sexual Violence Project is it's giving us an opportunity to bring this information to healthcare professionals, who are really in that frontline position to talk to their patients about potentially stopping or preventing sexual violence and abuse.

0:04:27.3 LD: And in year one, we focused on women. But what happened is we heard from men with disabilities who said, "This is happening to us too. We also need to have a voice in this issue." And of course, James has been a huge face to this issue for the movement. And what we're doing now with the project, we actually were funded for two years. The first year was looking at women, the second year, men and now we're looking at both men and women, and how to bring supported decision making into deciding when, if and how to report sexual victimization and other types of abuse, too.

0:05:09.1 LD: So that's kind of an overview of the Talk About Sexual Violence Project and what we're doing. It involves creating products, like short videos for healthcare providers, some materials to go along with the videos, to help support how to use them. And our focus really this year, and we got three years of funding this time, was to outreach to46
the healthcare providers more than ever, and how do we really get into the mainstream of healthcare? So that's what we're doing at this point.

0:05:39.3 LM: That's great work. Thanks, Leigh Ann, for going over that overview and that history. And James, I know, as Leigh Ann mentioned, you've got a lot of involvement in this project too. And I know that you've done work in creating the videos and the scripts about talking to doctors and doing some talking to doctors. So could you talk about your involvement in the Talk About Sexual Violence Project?

0:06:03.2 James Meadours: Yes. This past year, I decided to... Did a personal treat for myself and I decided to make a priotity of myself, what I want to do for myself and helping others. And like I said, I used to be a long-time survivor [0:06:28.9] ____ leader, and been involved with the movement like 30 something years. And now I want to focus on men issues of sexual assault because oftentimes, male survivors are not willing to share their experience, to share their stories, or tell what happened to them because of ego or pride, because they feel like people don't believe them.

0:06:56.9 JM: But with this project and the other projects I've been... Do trainings like doctors, we did a video on how to talk to your medical doctors and also, I did a video called 1in6 video of men, all types of men, no matter if you're young or old. One person was in the military for a long time. And also we developed scripts to talk about how you could talk to people you feel comfortable about trauma-informed care, how we could do... To talk about what happened to them because... Feel ashamed because people think males don't have trauma experience. As a male survivor, my sexual assault experience is real, it's not fake. And it's just hard because I am minority person, because most of the people who are talking about sexual assault are females who've been hurt by another person. But I feel like it's very important to hear from us, because we are minority of this group of people we are talking about.

0:08:25.5 LM: Thanks, James and I know that that work is just really ground-breaking. Leigh Ann talked to us about the history of folks not talking about this topic, the intersection of topics, and so that I know that you both have also done work, thinking about what advocates in our movement in the sexual assault, anti-sexual assault movement need to know about working with men with disabilities. So let's talk about that. What do advocates need to know about working with men with disabilities? James, would you start us off?

0:09:03.0 JM: Because we experience the same thing. Because one I think is healthy, is helping males to know it's not their fault because oftentimes, people blame us, it's our idea, our coercion of something, because they think we always want sex. But really, sometimes when people hurt us, and sometimes we need help and support because we still... Of guilt, we blame ourselves, and if a parent or a guardian or even a service provider don't help us to get the counseling we needed. And this why we need to get male survivors to get the support they need because sometimes, they get depressed and discouraged, and it is just so important to talk one another about what happened to you.

0:10:05.6 JM: Because one of the things I've learned from my last sexual assault was my SANE nurse and even the volunteer at the rape crisis center in Baton Rouge, took the time and tell me it was not my fault at all because the person who came to my apartment, I invited that person to come in, but at the end result, it was not my fault at all, been hurting that way. But as counselors, to help us to get our confidence back, to talk about... Don't put the blame game on to yourself, but really help them to know, realize most survivors are also need to recover from that experience because those experience are real. It's painful sometimes, but we need to talk one and one another, to get a fully recover experience.

0:11:11.0 LM: Thanks for that, James. Leigh Ann, what would you add about sexual assault advocates need to know about working with men with disabilities?

0:11:20.0 LD: Well, I think James raised a great point early on, when he was talking about stereotypes and I know we're gonna get into that a little bit later too, but I think first and foremost, advocates who may not be familiar with disability need to be aware of those stereotypes and how it can really impact someone's freedom, really, to be able to speak about what happened to them and think about the additional challenges or barriers that males with disabilities have, when they even try to come forward and talk about this issue, as James was mentioning.

0:12:02.8 LD: So I think that's something that advocates need to be aware of. And there's also something called the Americans with Disabilities Act. Title II of that act states that "people with disability should have equal access to services," and that includes when you're a crime victim and so victim service agencies need to understand this or crisis centers, anyone who has any role in supporting a crime victim with disabilities needs to understand what their role is and their responsibilities are in providing those kinds of supports to people with disabilities and really think about, how do we outreach better to that population specifically?

0:12:46.3 LD: And one of the things that we try to work on here through the National Center on Criminal Justice and Disability is to support advocates to work more closely with the local, state and national male sexual assault organizations, so that they can create much more awareness about this issue overall. And James and I actually got a chance to work with an organization called 1in6 on a PSA, where they were talking about sexual violence among males. So it was the first time that an organization like 1in6 had brought in a person with a disability on a PSA or any kind of national outreach on this topic. So it was a huge moment for both James and I to be a part of, and we were so excited to see this type of information about men with disabilities being brought into mainstream understanding around this issue.

0:13:45.7 LD: We also, of course, have worked with your center as well on different blog posts, and we're so excited to be able to provide that information. But we know too, that different victim advocacy organizations throughout the country are working with local chapters of The Arc. We have over 600 chapters nationwide, and we really encourage that to take place. Victim advocates can also work with other organizations like the Autism Society or NAMI, which is National Alliance for Mentally Ill, and these are ways to create stronger connections together, so that when any type of outreach to the community and training advocates around these issues, that disability is always a key piece of that type of training and education.

0:14:36.6 LD: So we wanna also make sure that men with disabilities are included in efforts like these, so that these local communities don't feel alone and that they can find a community to belong to. 'Cause one of the hardest things, and James and I talk about this quite a bit, it's just that sense of belonging and how, when that sense of belonging is missing, the possibility and the risk of becoming a crime victim or even knowing what to do if that happens, really grows. So we wanna look at how to prevent that in any way possible.

0:15:16.2 LM: Thanks, Leigh Ann. And I'm especially glad that you evoked forming partnerships with local chapters from The Arc, and other examples of partnerships because forming partnerships to help reach male survivors is one of the big themes of what we're trying to talk about with this project. So you gave some great examples of ways to do that, and you also mentioned the importance of talking about stereotypes, so let's move on to that topic. So what are the stereotypes about sex and disability, and how does that affect male survivors with disability, especially when it comes to male sexual abuse? James, would you get us started on that topic?

0:16:07.2 JM: That's a good question because one of the things is, it's about ego and pride, because oftentimes, males sometimes feel ashamed because they think it was their idea of having sex with another person, but really, it's not. It's important to know, is don't always blame the male person who is hurting another person, but really that person hurting them. And I felt like that's the thing, it's ego and pride, because for me, as a male survivor, I remember I was assaulted in my high school years. I blamed myself because the girls invited me to go to their house and assaulted me.

0:17:04.2 JM: But when my last assault happened, when I was visiting the SANE nurse and also the person from the rape crisis center in Baton Rouge, SANE nurse is a Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner, and they... She tell me, "It's not your fault what happened to you because... " I say, "I brought this person into my house. It is my fault." But instead, she took the time to tell me it's not my fault, "You should not blame yourself for things you cannot control," and it is... And it's important to know that one of the things we need to help male survivors is really, really help them to believe themselves, that it is not their fault at all, and to help them to know that you could be able to recover with your assault.

0:18:09.1 JM: It took me a long time from my first assault to my last assault and I'm very grateful, like I said, since three years ago to today, focus on this new mission to help male survivors, but also have the bigger picture for all types of males who've been hurting that way. And even females, I'm not just a person just focused on disability by all males and also other people, because anyone is... Sometimes males sometimes blame themselves of what happened, but the bottom line, it is not our fault. And this why is important to help male survivors to know that it is not their fault, but to help them to believe themselves, to build their confidence again, if they may want to have a relationship with another person. But sometimes it's hard because they're afraid that people think they want to have sex with a female again, and the bottom line is, no, I don't. I want to have a relationship with a person who I really cares about to share my interests and share the same interest with that person.

0:19:34.0 LM: Yeah, thanks for those, James. Leigh Ann, were you going to add to this conversation about stereotypes? I know you brought it up earlier in the last conversation.

0:19:47.1 LD: Sure. Actually, I was wondering, just from James, if you have one that you think is like one of the most common stereotypes or that you personally have experienced as a male with a disability, what do you think is the most common one that you've experienced or maybe the worst one out of that list?

0:20:12.7 JM: I think the one that I think it's hard, because I think when I try to want to have a relationship with someone, they think I'm looking for sex, but really, I'm not, I just want to have a relationship with someone, just two people falling in love and support each other, and to be able to have someone like that. And that's hard sometimes because when I was trying to seek for a relationship this past year, and I think her mom and dad, and even her local self-advocacy advisor think I'm looking for sex, but really, I'm not. I just want to have relationship with her, and it didn't work out the way I wanted it to be.

0:21:05.3 JM: And that was very hurtful to me. And I think the other thing is hard is the web is really bad... Because today technology is more available for people with disabilities to surf the web and they could fall onto the web of pornography, to go to the inappropriate websites, because now people have cell phones or iPads, or even a tablet to navigate the system, and sometimes they fall into those websites are not healthy choices they make for themselves. And we need to find a way to teach survivor tips how to do healthy choices on the internet, through their tablets or their iPad, or even their cell phones.

0:22:10.9 LD: Yeah, that's good. I also wanted to add, I think around stereotypes and how it affects men with disabilities is this huge lack of sex education, which James talked about. People don't think that people with disabilities necessarily need it, apparently. There's no legislation around this that mandates that people with disabilities get a certain amount of education on sexuality or on understanding the implications of being in relationships, how to have healthy relationships. And while there is some of that available, thanks to different non-profits and programs that are providing that, it's not something that is certain for people with disability. So this is a huge lack, and it's something that we're working on through the center to see how we can ensure that this education is available.

0:23:22.3 LD: And as James said, these stereotypes, for example, some that we've heard over the years is people with disabilities are over-sexed or they're under-sexed, and there's all kinds of misunderstanding and really, people with disabilities are just like everyone else when it comes to sex, and this is very important for people to understand, so that when we think about sexual victimization and prevention around that, or when we think about developing relationships and the need to have connections with other people sexually and otherwise, how are people with disabilities included in that? And so that really lays a framework for understanding why this issue really is out of control, in terms of how high the numbers are around sexual victimization of people with IDD and males with IDD.

0:24:22.5 LM: Yeah, thanks for breaking that down, both of you. And what you're talking about at this point now is making system changes to become more accessible to see survivors with disabilities, male survivors with disabilities, to do sex education that reaches people with disabilities. And so in that spirit of making changes to become more accessible, I'm wondering if maybe we could talk about sexual assault centers and advocates of those programs. So what are some examples that you've seen of advocates or programs that have made a change to be more accessible to male survivors with disabilities? Leigh Ann, would you start us off on that one?

0:25:14.0 LD: Sure. Thanks, Louie. And this is really an important point, and I know I kinda brought it up already 'cause I guess I was over-excited to mention it. But accessibility is a legal term and it does come from the Americans with Disabilities Act, and in general, it... We're looking at how to encourage programs to be more open, welcoming, and accepting of men with disabilities at their agencies. And the ADA has been really important to ensuring that full inclusion of people with disabilities in society, and more than ever, it's important when we think about providing services to male survivors, so that is just an important kind of framework to understand what is sort of the tool that we're using to bring this kind of information and ensure accountability around getting services to males with disabilities.

0:26:15.7 LD: And actually, James and I had attended a round table, through NSVRC, on this topic, that brought men with disabilities into the broader discussion, and I felt like this was a great example of how the two worlds can intersect, the world of male-survivorship and also the world of disabilities, to really begin making an impact, because this can result to national organizations providing information about this topic, again, to their local agencies or chapters or sites or whatever they have. And while we did hear about some impressive programs for men during that round table, there was really none looking at that intersection of disability and other types of marginalized communities.

0:27:09.5 LD: So this, I believe, is a beginning where we can start looking more deeply into these issues and at those intersections, and I think what we have to ask is, "Are we reaching the person least likely to get services?" That is where we have to begin, because if we're not asking that, then somehow, somewhere, we're leaving someone out, and too often, it is people with disabilities, and again, males with disabilities, who, as we talked about, face even greater hurdles when it comes to speaking their truth about these issues. Another thing that we've been doing through our center is working with the National Coalition of Sexual Health and this is a coalition, it's really working to bring... The mission is to bring an understanding of sexual health and wellness into mainstream media.

0:28:07.5 LD: And they also work with healthcare professionals and the healthcare world around sexual health. And we've been working with them to really infuse disability into their work. In fact, we're looking at ways to maybe work together on future projects, and so we're looking at going into the area of sexual wellness and how do we bring disability there? And of course, that does definitely impact local communities when we are trying to reach out either through media campaigns or in other ways to bring education to the local level. Another good example is called SAFE in Austin, Texas.

0:28:55.2 LD: The SAFE Alliance is a merger of Austin Children's Shelter and SafePlace, and they both have long-standing and respected human service agencies in Austin that serve survivors of child abuse, sexual assault, exploitation and domestic violence. I've worked with SAFE for many years, and they have their own separate program just focused on people with disabilities. Their program is 100% focused on ensuring that they're working with their community to build in this accessibility piece. And if something isn't accessible, how can they work with that domestic violence shelter or sexual assault center, to ensure that it is? And they serve people with disabilities directly and provides support services throughout their community there.

0:29:51.6 LD: And then another great resource I wanted to mention, and of course, all this can be provided in the show notes, but Vera Institute of Justice created an online toolkit for professionals, this was funded by the Office for Victims of Crime, and really the target audience is anyone who might impact or work with a victim of crime, but the focus of this toolkit is how do we help survivors who have disabilities? So it is really quite comprehensive and speaks to a number of different issues, including males with disabilities. So I would encourage folks to check that out because it was three years in the making; quite an undertaking, but I think it's gonna be a great resource in the field for those who wanna do training on this topic, it includes really brief videos, and it has a number of different ways to kind of engage learners, so that it's pretty interesting to go through as well, but I think that's a great resource for the field that we'll probably be using for many years to come.

0:31:00.8 LM: Great. Those are... That's a great list of examples. James, did you have any examples that you wanted to add, that you've seen, of advocates or programs making a change to be more accessible to male survivors with disabilities?

0:31:12.5 JM: That's a good question, Louie. Three years ago, myself and Leigh Ann Davis went to Los Angeles and I was a part of that project of six different men, and the video called "The 1in6 video" was different types of men, some of them were young, some was old, even a person who was a person in the military, and also I'm the first person with a intellectual disability, who was able to share my story, my experience as a male survivor. But the last couple of years, we've been, me, myself and Leigh Ann and other survivors around the country, talk about why important to include male survivors.

0:32:07.7 JM: And we did a project last year or a couple of years ago, did a project about how men could talk to medical professionals, like doctors or nurses about their experience as trauma-informed care. And also we've been putting stuff and materials available on the web and other avenues to present at conferences and presentations of different groups and the organizations, and a lot of the state and local DD agencies who get state money to fund different programs to include people with disabilities to share the experience. And like I said, the last two years, a lot of the state and local agencies, not just in Texas, asked my perspective as a male survivor. Oftentimes, they keep counting on a female to share their story, their experience, but since...

0:33:21.5 JM: To go share her story of abuse and betrayal. Now people realize, we need talk about male survivors, who've been hurt by sexual assault. And we are trying to create tools to help other survivors, especially males with disabilities because they feel ashamed or guilty, what happened to them, because it's just not a lot of materials out there. But now, we're pushing it more and more each day, each month, even each year, to get the tools they need to be able to recovery.

0:34:05.9 LM: Yeah, I think that's a great idea that anyone can do, just asking, "Do you have these resources?" So, I appreciate those examples of what folks can do. James, thank you. And so, kind of just still thinking about things that advocates and sexual assault centers can do, how can they engage male survivors with disabilities in their local communities to understand the needs of those male survivors with disabilities in their local communities, and then to offer relevant services that are accessible. James?

0:34:46.3 JM: One of the ways they could do it is try to find like a local chapter of The Arc or even a local chapter of a self-advocacy group, or even maybe in a social media page, like a Facebook or Twitter, or talk about, "We're looking for male survivors with disabilities and we need your input." At the same time, the most important thing sometimes is that our time is valuable. Sometimes we need to get paid what we're doing, because we don't ask much for money, but just like a gift card or another thing could be easy for us to do the work. But at the same time, sometimes we do it as a volunteer, to do like a recruitment of the different organizations around your local community, but also try to get the local rape crisis centers to think about male survivors with disabilities because oftentimes, when they do male support groups, oftentimes it's only men without disabilities share their experience.

0:36:14.8 JM: And they sometimes often miss males with disabilities who experienced the same thing or trauma. And sometimes we feel like we're not included. But with... I think the most important thing is that don't... That we have a voice, we have a perspective, and this is why it's important to include us in because we deal with the same experience like everyone else, and to help us to be able to recover from our own personal experience of trauma.

0:36:57.5 LM: Thanks, James. Leigh Ann, did you want to add anything about how advocates and programs can engage male survivors with disabilities in their local communities to understand those needs and offer services, relevant services?

0:37:11.9 LD: Sure. I think just picking up, too, on something James mentioned, the focus on peer advocates, we really see that becoming a great way to just bring sort of an authentic and honest approach to how we support other survivors. And James is actually involved in a project out in Massachusetts, where they're looking at engaging peer advocates around sexual assault issues. So I think that is something within the intellectual developmental disability community, in partnership with local victim advocacy organizations that we should start looking at how to do that more and also developing evaluation around that, and being able to bring more funding into this type of supports. And it's something that we're looking at, how we can do that long term because really, peer advocacy ticks a lot of the boxes around what we're missing when it comes to long term healing.

0:38:21.1 LD: And James and I often talked about it's not just about addressing prevention, or what happens in the moment. But then what happens after? How are we ensuring that male survivors have ongoing support? What does that healing journey look like in the long run? And how can advocates and programs really engage male survivors who often have the best expertise when it comes to understanding what can work, what really does work?

0:38:54.1 LD: And that's what I found in working with James and other male survivors that the answers are often within. And it's about providing the framework and support to really bring that to fruition and really bring that into the community. So, a couple of things too that our national center offers is something called the Pathways to Justice Training. And that training creates what's called Disability Response Teams, that include persons with disabilities as well as law enforcement officers, victim advocates, and attorneys. And this team helps put on a training that focuses on different professional groups to train them about how to support people in the community that have disabilities.

0:39:43.0 LD: And one of those groups that we focus on is victim advocates. So, through this process, we've been able to reach a number of victim advocates in communities. And it's great because you're talking to not just one piece of this puzzle, but we're talking to law enforcement at the same time as the victim advocate in the room and the attorney. And key to that is the person with the disability. And this may be the first opportunity that all of these individuals have been together in one room, or in one place to really be able to understand the nuance around these issues and how do we really create that ongoing support.

0:40:24.1 LD: So that's something that we've been doing for... I guess we started piloting that in 2015, and we offer that training throughout the country. One of the things that James did actually is he was on the Disability Response Team and continues to be for The Arc of Texas. He and I are both from Texas, and he's provided training on, with one of the officers on the Disability Response Team, and they provided training together and that has been such a success that in Texas, they're looking at how to provide that training throughout the state. So this is one example I think that is important to think about.

0:41:08.3 LD: But another thing that we've seen is the lack of counseling services. So we're looking at how do we make counseling services available? And that those counselors have experience and are trained on this issue. People with disabilities are often traumatized, and it's actually thought of as then they have a behavior problem, when the behavior is not linked to the disability at all, but it's due to the trauma. And so if we don't have people in the counseling services who understand that, therapists who are trained to really understand that trauma, and there is a good book, again, I think we should put in the show notes on this around how do we address trauma in people with IDD. But if we don't have that piece and that piece is missing, then how are we to provide long-term support around this and really help people heal?

0:42:02.1 LD: It just astounds me when I think about, if we could put a weight, a number to the weight of the amount of trauma that males, males that have experienced sexual victimization. But then you add males with disabilities, I mean, I really feel like it's such an... Still an unseen, unknown epidemic in our society, and we have to look at every type of angle of how we can get to providing supports much more comprehensively. And I think counseling and providing therapy and counselors who understand this issue is one of the key doors that we have to unlock to begin to do that.

0:42:58.6 LM: Thanks, Leigh Ann. James, I was wondering if you were wanting to add to this conversation on counseling services?

0:43:10.7 JM: Sure, Louie. I think it's a very important question to ask because oftentimes, because sometimes as a male survivor, I know a friend who needs some assistance, support from the local DD agency in a state, and he was trying to ask for help, but they didn't understand what type of help he needed because he tried to explain, he, a person was a sexual assault survivor and someone took advantage of them and someone hurt him pretty bad.

0:43:53.1 JM: And the local DD, the local DD agency did not help him because they did not experience or had the training to help a male survivor to help him to navigate the system, to get what they needed and support he needed to be able to recover from reaching out to go to a local rape crisis center, or even helping him to go to a local hospital, like the Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner. Because when he'd gone to the hospital, no one really, really was there to supporting him, but a friend of his was there, but no one understood what was the role of the support person who was there to be there for him. And they asked her to stay out the examination room. And it was the lack of training because no one understand how to support a male survivor.

0:45:03.8 JM: I was very lucky that the Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner understood why I need a support person with me and she understood why I had this person with me. But also, my friend understand my boundaries when they did the [0:45:25.1] ____ side of things, because some of it was... How can I say it? It was very private and I didn't feel comfortable for her not to be in the room, especially when they gather evidence in a way, I feel not comfortable.

0:45:46.6 JM: But the thing is most important is to have ways to have a peer person to assist this person, and they also train law enforcement and also the Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner why you need to have a person to support you to talk about it, no matter if you have a friend or an ally who you feel comfortable with, because that's part of like Leigh Ann say, it's a recent accommodation with the ADA. And that's why we need to train doctors, nurses and police officers how to understand what the person needs to be more sensitive when they're during those traumatic experience for them.

0:46:39.5 LM: Great. Thanks, James. And I think a lot of what you're saying about interacting with the different systems are these are all great things that advocates at sexual assault centers can take, and these are all really great recommendations for steps that they can take to partner, to enhance services and to really work collaboratively to meet the needs of male survivors of sexual assault who have disabilities, and yeah. So something that we talk about a lot in this project is... This project's related to reaching male survivors of sexual assault, it's just making sure that maybe you have training, you're really ready and you're kind of knowledgeable about the issues, you've trained your staff, you've read information about working with male survivors, but this barrier of... It's something that you both mentioned throughout our conversation today, of maybe male survivors not thinking of a sexual assault center as a place they could go and get services. So let's talk about that. How would male survivors who have disabilities find out and even know about accessible services that are available to them at their local sexual assault center? James, would you start us off on this one?

0:48:09.9 JM: I think one of the things is, if a person who's in a residential program or if in a different program, I think the rape crisis center or even the provider agency need to really market and to educate people about that type of service is available, because for myself, I think it's a big barrier in, not just in Texas, but I think in other states, to really reach... To reach out these different groups around, to know it's available, but also we need to teach the service providers how to do outreach if a person they are supporting to get the counseling they needed, to know that a rape crisis center, we need... They need more training how to support a male survivor, because maybe how to talk to them or how to support them.

0:49:21.4 JM: And I think that is a big barrier, is somehow we need to convince local rape crisis center to offer that service for people with... Especially male survivors, because oftentimes, most of the rape crisis centers sometimes deal with female issues throughout the last couple of years, a lot more males are coming out to share their own personal experience, and that's important to somehow educate the sexual assault places to go different communities, to find... To hook up with the local DD agencies, who oversees these programs in the local community.

0:50:17.1 JM: Because I think that's the important thing. But I also felt like we need to do something to teach male survivors to go and to do that, help them to teach them, use the 211 number or teach them about, what is the hotline number, because the hotline number for the rape crisis center is available 24 hours, seven days a week, and they could call any time. I think people need to teach us how to navigate the system, and at the same time, we can educate the rape crisis center at the same time.

0:51:00.2 LM: Yeah, those are great tips. Thanks, James. Leigh Ann, what would you add about how male survivors with disabilities can find out about services that are available to them at their local sexual assault center?

0:51:11.1 LD: Yeah, that's a great question. And one that we get here at the center, so I think one resource is either reaching out to your local chapter at The Arc, to see if they have done any work with their local victim service providers in their community, if they can't get help there then I would encourage them to reach out to our National Center on Criminal Justice and Disability. We do have a National Information and Referral, so that if someone calls in who's a victim or if it's a victim service agency and they're wanting to know more about accessibility, any of those kinds of questions, we like to answer.

0:51:52.1 LD: So we do have a place online to submit a question, and it's a pretty streamlined process and we try to get back to folks within the week. So we're here to support that. Another great resource is the Vera Institute of Justice, Center on Victimization and Safety. I referred to their toolkit earlier and they have a website with resources related to ending abuse of people with disabilities, and again, I would say check out that new toolkit, which is a great resource. They also really focus on providing accessibility checklists, and that's just a handy tool to have as a victim service agency to know how accessible you really are.

0:52:42.4 LD: And just a quick note on that, we're talking more than physical accessibility, so we're looking at things like, is your... Are your forms accessible? Would someone with an intellectual disability be able to understand them? Is your information being provided in plain language, so that it is truly accessible? What are different ways that you're providing support when explaining someone's rights as a crime victim? Are you providing a support person who can help with the communication and to ensure understanding around that?

0:53:18.7 LD: So these are things that we're really looking at how to bring... Going beyond physical accessibility, to cognitive accessibility as well. And I think I mentioned reaching out to our chapters of The Arc, but also places like Autism Society or NAMI. We wanna recognize that there's other types of disabilities, there's many different types of disability organizations throughout the country, and the more that we can partner together within the disability community and the victim assistance community, the more effective we're going to be to really bridging that gap, where there just hasn't been that support or services for male survivors. So that's what we're looking at doing. And again, if you can't find help anywhere else, please reach out to our center, 'cause we're more than happy to try to make those connections for people who need it.

0:54:17.4 LM: Thank you so much, Leigh Ann. I think that's a great note to end on because I think it really sums up one of the big themes of our conversation today and a really big theme of this project that NSVRC has been working on related to talking about how advocates of sexual assault centers can work with male survivors and reach male survivors and partnerships and working together is such a key piece of all of that. So thank you, thank you for joining us today, Leigh Ann and James. We do invite listeners to learn more about working with male survivors by checking out the links in the show notes.

[music]

0:55:07.6 LM: Thanks for listening to this episode of Resource on the Go. For more resources and information about understanding, responding to and preventing sexual assault, visit our website at www.nsvrc.org. You can also get in touch with us by emailing resources@nsvrc.org.