0:00:01.0 Megan Thomas: Welcome to Resource on the Go, a podcast from the National Sexual Violence Resource Center, on understanding, responding to, and preventing sexual abuse and assault. I'm Megan Thomas and I'm the communication specialist at NSVRC. On today's episode, we're learning more about Fort Lewis College's campaign to prevent COVID-19 and how those principles could be applied to preventing sexual violence. But first, a little background information. 0:00:29.2 MT: This year has seen a lot of research on how the COVID-19 pandemic disproportionately impact communities of color. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, indigenous people are four times more likely to be hospitalized due to COVID-19 and 2.6 times more likely to die compared to White people. 0:00:51.3 MT: This is a huge disparity, and it's important to understand not only why these inequities exist, but also how to interrupt and prevent them. So today, we're going to be talking about one college's campaign to prevent COVID-19 that builds on native values. Fort Lewis College is located on the ancestral lands of Nuchu, Ute, Apache, the Pueblos, Hopi, Zuni, and the Diné Nation, also known as Durango, Colorado. 0:01:22.3 MT: Over 3,000 undergraduate students attend Fort Lewis College, and over half are students of color. 41% of students are Native American or Alaska Native, representing 177 tribes and native Alaskan villages. I'm joined today by Ally Gee, a senior public health major, Dr. Sara Newman, Assistant Professor of Health Sciences, and Tom Stritikus, the President of Fort Lewis College. [music] 0:02:03.1 MT: Alright, so thank you again, everyone for joining us. I'm really looking forward to hearing more about the work you've been doing on your campus. And I wanted to start with just some brief introductions of you all. So Ally, would you mind telling us a little bit about yourself? [foreign language] 0:02:36.4 Ally Gee: My name is Ally Gee, and I am from Low Mountain, Arizona, located in the central agency of the Navajo Nation, and I'm a senior Public Health student at Fort Lewis College. 0:02:49.2 MT: Thanks so much. Dr. Newman, could you tell us a little bit about yourself? 0:02:53.5 Sara Newman: Yeah, absolutely. I'm Sara Newman. You're welcome to call me Sara. Thank you. I am an Assistant Professor of Public Health here at Fort Lewis College, and the area of public health I specialize in is community behavioral health, and really excited to be a part of this conversation. 0:03:15.3 MT: And Tom, would you tell us a little bit about yourself as well? 0:03:19.5 Tom Stritikus: Of course, Megan. Thanks for having us. I'm Tom Stritikus, President of Fort Lewis College. I have the privilege and honor of working with amazing students like Ally who shape our campus and make it a better place, and great faculty like Sara who use their expertise to help shape things like our response to the pandemic, and really all of our work, but this is work that we are proud of, we took on humbly, and we're really excited to talk to you about it today. 0:03:44.9 MT: Thanks so much. So to start off, we wanted to connect with you all after we read an article about how you're using the Navajo principle of kinship or K'é to combat COVID-19 on your campus. And one of the things that we know in our work is that creating healthy and connected communities is a really important component to preventing sexual violence, and we felt such a strong connection with the work you're doing, even though your work is on preventing COVID-19. 0:04:13.6 MT: And so Ally, I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit about where you got the idea for this campaign, and explain the principal of K'é and what made you think about this value as a way to stop the spread of COVID-19 on campus? 0:04:29.7 AG: So Sara actually approached me over the summer and asked if there was a way that we could connect Indigenous ideologies in a way that could help with the COVID-19 pandemic. [chuckle] And so I talked to my parents about it because they're both COVID survivors, and we kept coming back to this principle of like why mask wearing, why hand washing and symptom checking is important, and social distancing, and it was basically just a symbol of respect, not only for yourself, but for others, and that is what K'é means. 0:05:14.3 AG: It's this kinship that you feel with all living things, not just humans, but plants and animals and the land. And so the idea came from my parents, and this philosophy of K'é is heavily rooted in who we are as Navajo people, and when you're growing up, your parents and your grandparents tell you why it's so important. 0:05:39.9 AG: It's why we introduce ourselves the way we do when we list our four clans because we're trying to establish some type of relationship with whoever we are speaking to. And that's where the idea came from. It's my family's understanding of K'é, and every family is different, and I think that this concept can be translated into different tribes. 0:06:09.3 AG: So every tribal nation has their own understanding of K'é and this connection that we have with living things, and there's so many names for it, but that's the Navajo understanding, at least for my family. So that's where the idea came from, and that's how we used it to connect with the COVID-19 response. 0:06:29.6 MT: Thanks for explaining that background, that's so fascinating to learn about. I know that this campaign is one way that an indigenous value can be incorporated into a public health campaign. But Ally, could you talk about maybe other ways that indigenous frameworks more broadly could be used in public health policy or campaigns? 0:06:50.3 AG: Yeah, so I think indigenous frameworks and indigenous ideologies are kind of the backbone to health, like health campaigns, and I've been doing research for the last semester on how the epidemic of missing and murdered indigenous women has been... How people have been approaching the topic. Especially for tribes, they try to use culturally specific programming for their approach, and I think that using that approach for the people that you're serving is so important, and I think that indigenous ideology is seen in a lot of health campaigning and health programming. 0:07:42.2 AG: But one example that I can think of is the StrongHearts hotline. It's one of the first indigenous operated crisis hotlines for indigenous people, so it's run by Indigenous people for Native people, and I think that having that available to Native people is bringing them one step closer to addressing the high rates of violence that Native women face. And that's the one example that I can think of, and I think that indigenous frameworks are kind of the answer to a lot of health inequities that we see today. 0:08:22.1 MT: Yeah, that's such a great point. And thank you for bringing up StrongHearts hotline, that's a great resource and a great example. And so, we know that for a campaign like this to be successful, it has to be embraced and supported at all levels. So Tom, could you talk a little bit about how the school administration help support this campaign? 0:08:41.5 TS: Sure. I think in our overall COVID response, we were really interested in meeting people where they were. If you look across the country, there were schools that tried to scold students into doing the right thing, there were schools that tried to punish students into doing the right thing, and ultimately, I'm pretty clear that students really don't wanna be lectured by old guys like me. 0:09:06.2 TS: And so we really wanted just to engage our community where they were, in education, and help them understand why doing the right thing was not only good for themselves, but good for their student colleagues and their student communities that they are connected to. So for us, this was just a great idea that actually just fit right in line with the way we've been, the way we think about our school, the way we think about empowering our students to be agents of their own being, so classic good leadership, when you see a good leap idea, don't screw it up. [chuckle] 0:09:46.0 MT: Yeah, thank you. I know that there is a large native student population represented on campus, and so, Ally, you sort of mentioned about appealing to the community values that are already a part of this community. Would you be able to talk about why it's so important to reflect community values, and maybe what are some of the consequences of not incorporating community values into a campaign? 0:10:11.5 AG: I think that, like I said earlier, that indigenous frameworks are kind of the answer to a lot of health inequities, but especially within native populations, and I think that that's what public health has taught me most importantly, is that you should try to frame whatever you're doing to address health problems to the population that you're serving. 0:10:32.6 AG: I've seen so much success with the Navajo Nation, what they're doing for our people. We don't have a lot of resources, as far as infrastructure or money, but I think that what they're doing with the, to handle COVID, is awesome. They translate everything into the Dené language, and they create infographics that have things that we're familiar with, like sheep, and hogan, and people dressed up in their traditional attire. 0:11:08.5 AG: I think one of the positive things that has come out of it is just seeing that with public health, you can... It's not impossible to frame whatever you're doing to fit around the population that you're working with. And I think one of the downfalls to not doing that is you're not connecting with your population, and connection is so important when you're being a public health practitioner. If you're not connecting with your audience, they're not gonna follow whatever you're asking them to do. 0:11:42.3 AG: Because public health is essentially like a call to action, in some shape or form, and I think that if you're not connecting with the people, they're not going to do what you're asking of them, and that's the biggest downfall to not framing it in a way that they understand. And there's a lot of barriers, like language, or just culture, when it comes to serving Native people, and I think that's why it's important that we're coming from an angle that people understand. 0:12:14.3 AG: I know that a lot of, a big chunk of the native students that come to Fort Lewis are Navajo, because we're so close to Durango, and I think a lot of other native students are familiar with Navajo concepts, because they have a Navajo friend, I feel like. So I think it was good that we used this concept to connect with a large majority of who we were targeting. 0:12:41.5 AG: I know that not everyone on campus is native, but I felt like providing them a simplified version of what K'e means was really our goal so that they could understand why native communities, we take care of one another during times like this. So I think that that was awesome that we did that and that we connected with our population, which was the student body. 0:13:04.1 MT: Yeah, absolutely. And one of the things... We wanna help listeners really make the connection between the work that you all are doing and the work that they're doing in their own communities. So, Sara and Ally, what can people listening do, in order to develop campaigns that reflect the values of the communities that they're working in, or that they're a part of? 0:13:27.6 SN: That's a great question. Ally, do you wanna take a stab first, or? 0:13:33.2 AG: No, you can go ahead. [chuckle] 0:13:34.6 SN: Okay, cool. So I wholeheartedly agree with everything Ally is saying, and oh my gosh, so incredibly proud. I think I've listened to a couple other of your podcast episodes, and so it's really that idea of being both community-led, community-grounded, and adapting campaigns to community values. And so I think everything that Ally is saying too... 0:14:09.1 SN: And so I've worked with previous indigenous groups prior to coming to Fort Lewis, and I think that as Ally is saying, isn't entirely my experience too, which is the deep underlying values of indigenous culture jive incredibly well with what we're trying to accomplish in public health and prevention work. And so I think using that common language and using those deeper values to frame arguments, because it's not about the behavior. 0:14:46.8 SN: And exactly like Tom said, I'm not very likely to follow a prescriptive kind of hammer-down approach, it's where I can appeal to values, and that the behaviors are indicative of kind of those larger frames, that I think it becomes more successful. 0:15:05.5 AG: Oh, I like what Sara said, and also, I think it's important to just get to know your community. So if you're working like in a certain population like a racial or ethnic population, or within a certain location, I think it's just important to go out into the community and kinda learn about the people, their likes, their dislikes, if you notice any patterns or... 0:15:30.9 AG: I think with indigenous people, it really just comes down to taking the time to talk to someone and finding out things about their culture. I also think it's important to consult actual people coming from the population and making sure that they're a part of the campaign. Like what Sara did, she included me in this, because one, I'm an indigenous person, and then two, I'm a student, and so I fit with the population that we're serving, and I got to provide input on how to frame this. 0:16:06.0 AG: And I think that that's the most important part of trying to find that connection, and also, that's the biggest advice that I can give to someone who wants to create a campaign, is get to know your population and make sure that someone from that population is helping you create this program. 0:16:28.1 SN: And I'd like to piggyback off of that too, 'cause I think that there's always this power imbalance, right? Or there tends to be. It's not always. And so, choosing Ally, not only is she a Public Health student, she's also a student leader, the Hozhoni ambassador, and so I don't... You didn't bring that up, but... [chuckle] 0:16:52.2 SN: So not only like an advanced Public Health major, a student leader, and has taken my Public Health Communication course in, which she did a major campaign and really shined in that course, and it was very much the same principle. So we were really lucky that I knew Ally. She and I have worked together well. 0:17:13.1 SN: And what I tried to really do in that course particularly, and what we did in this campaign, is trying to shift that balance of power, where I'm more of the consultant, I'm a support, and the student is much more empowered to lead in designing, implementing, and evaluating your campaign. And so I think not only what... 0:17:35.4 SN: I think the work was already established through our previous relationship that Ally and I had, so that when this crisis came up, I could call Ally and say, "Hey, this is what I'm thinking," she knew exactly kind of the theory and the process behind it. And so it's in actual non-academic community work, it's that long-term relationship building and that power imbalance too. 0:18:08.7 MT: Yeah, I'm really glad that you brought that up. I think that is something that people need to consider, is the different dynamics that are going on and having that long-term relationship is always really important. What we... 0:18:20.8 AG: Plus Ally is amazing. [laughter] 0:18:25.2 MT: Yeah. And I know what we've seen over the past year now is how COVID-19 has illuminated a lot about our culture and our society in general, as well as how it's impacting specific communities. So Tom, I was wondering if you could talk to us about what the COVID-19 pandemic has revealed about the Fort Lewis College community? 0:18:47.0 TS: Great question, thank you for that. First of all, I would say it has really illuminated the caring nature of our faculty and staff. When we had to isolate students because if they were exposed, we had deans, we had provosts, we had our vice president of Financial Affairs delivering meals to students in their residence halls, dropping off care packages. Peoples whose day job it was to think about something else, said, "Hey, why don't we put little stickers in the food packages?" All around our community, it really just exhibited the great caring that we all have. 0:19:26.0 TS: Second, I think it showed how nimble we are. We overnight transformed campus, we put outdoor learning spaces on campus, we were largely in-person for the vast majority of the semester, which was a real success. That sort of nimbleness, I think a lot of times higher ed in particular, I know this isn't a podcast for higher ed, but a lot of institutions think, "Oh, you're not nimble," but yet we were able to really adapt. 0:19:49.0 TS: And then third, I would say, it's really important to tap your community resources. The part that I seen my leadership team and our campus really step up is when you don't know something, turn to people who do know something. And in this case, I might be really clear about what I want our campus to do in terms of its overall COVID response, and our leadership team might be clear about it. 0:20:14.1 TS: But we might not know how to communicate it, and there are people like Sara, like Ally, who know better. And so it's important for leaders to be clear about what they don't know and be willing to quickly go to people who do know things and make adaptions and adjustments. 0:20:35.5 SN: And I'd like to piggyback off of that. As someone... To that leadership. 'Cause as someone trained in public health, but in higher ed, the crisis was just personally challenging because I didn't feel that I was able to help in any meaningful way, and so to be able to be tapped and work closely with the administration and work closely with students in this response, was incredibly fulfilling, and I think helped not only our students, but also had this more robust public health response. 0:21:17.0 MT: Yeah, thank you. I'm interested in hearing from all of you. How did the campaign go overall? Were there any results that really interested or surprised you? 0:21:25.8 TS: Well, I'll start and then we can cascade down. 'Cause this campaign was part of a larger COVID response that included mitigation, pillars of mitigation, distancing, mass protocols, a robust testing protocol that we put together. So we conducted over 10,000 tests and we're able to understand the burden of disease within our community. So when you have something as complex as COVID, any single response is not going to... 0:21:58.2 TS: Any single aspect of the strategy isn't the single determinant. So I think what we learned is we can do with a lot on our campus to control the disease, and we were able to. I think what we learned is that students really appreciate being educated and really appreciate being engaged rather than being told what to do, and that's to Sara's point. 0:22:23.6 TS: And I think it fits our values. We're an educational institution, so our job is to help develop people and help them see things that they might not have seen. So overall, I'd say successful, though it should be noted, incredibly difficult to manage. All aspects of the COVID work where... We all had day jobs, and then we essentially added an entire new day job on top of that, which was very taxing and very difficult, but proud to say, our team really rallied and responded. 0:22:56.5 SN: I agree. I think in terms of... A communication campaign is as good as the thing it's marketing, I think. And so without the alignment top to bottom, with not only the administration but everyone providing the test, the entire campus, students, faculty and staff, I think got on board for a single mission. 0:23:24.2 SN: I know framing it in terms of our values certainly facilitated that, but if we didn't have that infrastructure or the capacity to do the number of tests, we did, the case worker who helps students manage if they were exposed and then manage their academics from the faculty side, creating a community of caring, where I've never been as lenient I was this semester in terms of... I don't know that "lenient" is the right word, but flexible, nimble, adaptable in terms of students meeting their course objectives. I think that is a way that we were able to support the entire mission. 0:24:10.2 SN: In terms of our campaign specifically, I think Ally and I, when we talked, we were very careful to one, use a Navajo or Dene concept, but also frame it as an indigenous, a broader indigenous viewpoint, because we have such a large tribal diversity. I think we have over 170 tribes represented at Fort Lewis. And then, I would like to say how incredibly vulnerable Ally was to be the spokesperson, the face of the campaign. 0:24:50.3 SN: I'm really grateful that she had her family support, that she was able... That's something I try to always advise students, is if you're going to use a concept, definitely talk a lot with your community and your support network, because I know Ally did get some backlash for, and some challenging things about this campaign. And I don't know if you wanna speak to that, you don't have to. And so I'd love to hear, I guess as well, of Ally, your experience. But I'm just very proud of her. Yeah. 0:25:33.2 AG: Thank you, Sara. Okay, so I guess I'll talk about from a student perspective, first. I think that the campaign went pretty well. I think... I know that it was kind of hard to escape like this... Everywhere you go on campus is like, "COVID, wear a mask, wash your hands." And I think that that's part of why I think it was successful. 0:26:01.3 AG: And then also just seeing how much the physical plan workers put into putting up stickers, putting up QR codes, cleaning, the custodial staff cleaning the classrooms that we were using. I think it was really a team effort, so not only the professors for making sure that this semester they were flexible, but also making sure that they're telling their students that they need to wear their mask if their classes is in person. And then having... 0:26:38.0 AG: Having the ability to have everything sanitized between use, I think is such a privilege. And I'm glad that we enjoy that at Fort Lewis, and we have such hard working and awesome staff that can do that for us. So I thought that from that point of view, it was such a huge success seeing all of that, and had I not been involved in the campaign, I think that I still would have thought it was successful. Without seeing all of the work that we put into it. 0:27:08.3 AG: But I know that everyone that... All of my friends that I talked to this semester, they thought it was pretty great the way Fort Lewis handled things, and just comparing ourselves to other schools that had to either be online the entire semester or having to end within the first week or so. And I was pretty proud of our student population for the limit of gatherings. 0:27:35.5 AG: I'm just gonna be outright and say it, but college parties used to happen every weekend, but I felt like this semester it died down because of COVID, that I know of. So I thought that just seeing that from the student body was pretty awesome, and I'm proud of them. 0:27:51.3 AG: From an individual perspective, I did get a lot of backlash. I think that's one of the problems with being vulnerable and sharing part of your culture, is that people think that they have such an understanding that they can weaponize it against you, even though you only gave them 1% of information. I think that that's something that's important to acknowledge as a native person, is that you're gonna give up a part of yourself and you don't know how the community is going to respond, and that's what I learned from this, just me, myself. 0:28:33.4 AG: I know that not every public health work thing that I'm gonna be doing is gonna be like that, but I think it's an important lesson to learn as a native person going into public health, is that not everyone is going to be open about what you're trying to give to them, even though what you're doing essentially is trying to help people. 0:28:56.1 AG: And I think what I also learned from this campaign was that it's very hard to teach non-Native people about... I'm learning their individualistic mindset, and as Native people, we don't really have that. We are very community-oriented and community-woven, and we have this understanding that all of us are connected in some way, which is why I think, at least for my tribe's response to that, they did such a great job. 0:29:33.2 AG: And why their COVID response is pretty successful, it's because we all look out for one another regardless of whether or not we know each other. But I think that that's something I learned was that it's very hard to teach people who don't want to be... Who don't want to accept what you're trying to tell them. And then also how important transparency is as far as the coming from the administration at our college, I think it was really important that as students, we knew what was going on at all times, as far as COVID like how many cases we had. 0:30:13.0 AG: One thing that I liked is that on the website for Fort Lewis, we can see how many students have been tested, how many cases we have, how many have recovered. And I really liked that. So I thought that was a great part to the response as a whole. And then for the campaign itself, I thought we did a great job. I loved the way we framed it. I loved that we didn't do it in a way that was scolding, like Tom said. 0:30:40.6 AG: I thought that... I think that that's one of the challenges to this campaign, is that you want to get upset with people who aren't following our community pillars, but you can't because it's not helpful to scold people. It just makes them feel bad and then they might not want to... They might just never wear a mask or something. So I think that I love that about our campaign. 0:31:07.0 AG: So overall, I'd say it was pretty successful, and there was a lot of things that I learned about public health throughout this campaign as an individual, and I think that now I know for the future what to expect from campaigning, and how public health is going to work, and what it'll look like. And I'm kind of... 0:31:32.0 AG: Not kind of, I'm really happy that I chose public health, because I know it feels rewarding that I could do something that not only helped just one person, but helped a lot of people, the whole student body, on top of the faculty and staff that work at Fort Lewis. So yeah, I thought overall it was a success and I learned a lot from it. 0:31:54.5 TS: Oh, if I could just jump in and you just say, obviously you're hearing from Ally, just the incredible wisdom that she brought, and thanks to Sara for stewarding that along and being an incredible mentor for her. I do think Ally's raising an important point that is related to, when you put yourself out there as an individual, sharing your story, sharing your individual story, what are the risks associated with that? 0:32:21.5 TS: Ally did take some risks, and every time you do that in a community of 4000 people, there is apt to be some responses that are inappropriate. And so I think Ally's raising a really important thing for us to consider as we think about when we're using individual stories or group culture, what's the context in which those are successful, and what's the context in which something that, to Ally is very sacred, is treated that way. 0:32:51.9 TS: And while there is no guarantee that in a large community of students and faculty staff, everyone is going to see it that way, what do the Allys of the world need to ask of their leaders, their organizations, to make sure they have some air cover essentially to protect them in a way. And that can be a challenge, it's not a seamless thing. So I just appreciate Ally's maturity and Ally's wisdom around this, and I think she has a lot to teach me, and really, many other heads of organizations across the country that are listening to your podcast. 0:33:31.6 MT: Definitely, definitely. Yeah, I appreciate everything that everyone's brought up. I'm just sitting over here feeling like I'm vigorously nodding at everything everyone's saying, 'cause I'm like, "Yes, I agree." [chuckle] 0:33:45.2 MT: So one of the things that we're really trying to focus on at NSVRC at the moment is this idea of health equity and how to center that in our prevention work. So Sara, I was wondering if you could let us know, what are some things our listeners can do right now to focus their work on health equity, and then maybe some more long-term things as well? 0:34:04.8 SN: Yeah, absolutely. And that's such a big, amazing question. I know that Ally will remember, in class, we always talked about this. We call it our magic public health czar wand, where we're fixing... Where we're imagining, how would we redesign the world to make it more equitable? And so I think I have a couple of kind of concrete things... A big thing that I think we did well that... Sorry, I'll back up. 0:34:46.4 SN: For more of an immediate reaction, or immediate action, is making sure to disaggregate your data to identify and understand disparities, because unless we are able to track it, we can't actually identify that. If we can't address it, if we don't know where they are. Especially in the pandemic, especially as we're thinking about how it's disproportionately affecting low-income and racial minority communities. 0:35:17.1 SN: Certainly, in the immediate term, making donations to groups that are focused on health equity. Long-term disparities and inequities are coming from structures, and so to start focusing on systems and structural changes, I think is the way to have this kind of broader equitable impacts. Advocating for better policies in our communities, in our workplaces, and at kind of the policy level as well. 0:35:49.7 SN: Also, talking to people about health equity. I listened to a different podcast that says, "You have a platform and you should always use it." And so until we have a broader understanding of what health equity actually is, or health disparities, there isn't likely to be that kind of broader structural shift. And so everyone listening has a platform, and that has been something that I've been incredibly impressed. 0:36:20.2 SN: Even my own mom, my own mother is starting to use language that I know she wasn't exposed to. I've been saying this for a long time, but she's starting to kinda talk back with me about it, and that has been illuminating to me. And then I think in terms of how we can look at equity from our individual selves, so if you are... 0:36:50.2 SN: A lot of us have positions of privilege that are doing health equity research, and so for those of us who have that privilege, it's still exhausting, and so understanding that it makes people burnout, because we forget that systems took generations to form and so it might take that long for them to change. 0:37:12.5 SN: And then for people who are working in systems who don't have that privilege, understanding the vulnerability and the action it takes, but also, what are things that are going to prevent that burnout? And so the systems that people are working to try and change are also kind of perpetuating those inequities. And so how are ways... 0:37:39.5 SN: For Ally's specific example, again, I'm so glad that she was talking in very close communication with her family as she did this campaign, but understanding that it comes at a cost, and so being judicious about what it is that you're offering in terms of that work, and again, knowing that it's long-term. 0:38:05.4 SN: And so the thing I also tend to tell students, and boy, this was giving me the warm fuzzies today, listening to Ally talk and really validating that work, is it's not just the work we're doing, it's the people we're doing that work with, and so looking at how challenging that systems change is and really gaining a lot from the people we're working with. 0:38:33.4 MT: I appreciate everyone talking about this idea of vulnerability. Ally, I know you have mentioned that often times creating culturally specific campaigns like this can mean that indigenous people or people of color feel like they are being asked to give up a part of their self or a part of their culture to help the community and not necessarily knowing how it's gonna be received, or if it's gonna be used in the correct way. 0:38:57.6 MT: And so I was wondering if there's anything that you learned from this campaign that maybe you would do differently, or just any reflections along those lines? 0:39:09.0 AG: Yeah, so I think, like I said, overall, I thought we did pretty great, and it was nice to be part of this. I think as indigenous people, we inherently live in this state of addiction, and it's basically the basis of who we are. Because if you complain about something, people will say like, "Well, you're using your iPhone," or, "You have technology." That type of response. And it's true, but also we didn't choose to live this way. I think it's important that we're picking our battles, and that's what I kind of got out of this semester too, was that. 0:39:57.1 AG: Receiving that backlash, there were so many thoughts that went through my head that were kind of like, "Oh, if I wanted to, I could respond with this, I could say this." But I think just being part of this campaign, I've kind of gained the respect of a lot of people and when that happened, I didn't really need to say anything, I felt like other people kind of did that for me. 0:40:30.9 AG: I think that that was really an experience to go through as a... I'm not even graduated yet, so I think that that was something that was important for me to learn. And unfortunately, I think that for some people, that might be the turning point like, "Oh, do I really want to do public health?" So I think that that kind of falls into that vulnerability. 0:40:57.7 AG: That was one thing that I didn't really think of when I did the campaign, was like, "Will I receive backlash for this?" Because I was pouring something so sacred and so... I don't even know what the word is, but so sacred into the world, that I wouldn't think that there would be a way to even weaponize it, because that's not really how K'é is used in my community. K'é is really just used to shine light on things that... Just the importance of this connection that we have with everything. 0:41:36.3 AG: And when we're holding ourselves accountable, we use K'é in that way too, but not in a way where we're being condescending or scolding someone. It's more like "Okay, we need to check ourselves," and that's what K'é is. And people just, they don't really have that understanding of it unless they're a Navajo person, I feel like. 0:42:05.0 AG: And then also, I think that one thing that is not really talked about when you're doing these campaigns, is I think that it's just an American thing that is taught, is not to talk about money or this idea of compensation. But I think one thing that I think that for other people who want to do something like this, that it's important for them to know that compensation is so important. 0:42:29.1 AG: And I know that the idea of using an indigenous framework wasn't mine, but I felt like using K'é was kind of the backbone of this whole campaign, and I didn't get compensated or receive anything for helping Fort Lewis. And this concept of kinship was marketed a lot, I felt like, to a point where it made me think, "Did I give up too much?" 0:43:01.2 AG: And that's kind of that state of, I'm living in contradiction. And I think that that as Native people, we definitely feel that all the time is like, "Okay, how much is too much to give people, even if you're helping your community?" And it would be different if this was a Navajo-centered program, but it wasn't. And I think that that compensation for the people who are helping, especially, because I played such a big role in this campaign. 0:43:35.8 AG: I think that is one thing that I would change is just to know that even though there's no value on this concept of K'é, I think that it would have helped to know that I contributed. It was so worthy of using, that I received something in return for giving up that piece of myself. And I was more than happy to do it and volunteer my time and everything, but I think that that concept of free emotional labor and having to explain and educate people for free is, it's exhausting and I think we need to move away from that. 0:44:15.6 AG: So I'm really appreciative that I got to do this, but I think that compensation is the one thing that I would change, and also just acknowledging that that I had to give up this very important portion of my being to be able to help my community. I was happy to do it, but also some of the backlash that I received kind of made me take a step back and think like "How much did I give up and how much was okay to give up?" 0:44:39.5 AG: And it's also hard because no one can give you that answer. Even my parents, they can't say like, "Okay, you can tell them this much, but don't tell them this much," because then you don't know, 'cause my parents aren't the end all be all on our culture, and there's no one person who can tell you that. 0:44:56.7 AG: So it's more like you have to learn to gauge to that for yourself, how much you're willing to explain and educate others for free. So yeah, so I think that it's important that you're paying the people who are helping you, especially Native people who are using their community values. So I think that that's one thing that I would change and one thing that the next campus or whoever is gonna follow something like this, should do differently. 0:45:27.7 TS: Hi. That's a great remark and I think I'll take that as a request. So I appreciate you bringing that up. And I do believe, as an institution, Ally knows this, we had a group of students, Native students and students from a Black student union come and speak to our board of trustees retreat this summer, and we in fact did compensate them for their time, for their preparation, and for the work and working with our board. And Ally's correct, have not directly compensated her for this, and I think it's a good point, and so I appreciate you raising that. 0:46:04.6 TS: The second thing I would say as we were speaking is, just when you're doing this kind of work, how you rise above sometimes some of the noise, acknowledging it. We've used the word "vulnerable", and I think that's an important word to use. But "strength" is another word, that certainly I saw in Ally and in our response this summer and through the fall. 0:46:28.3 TS: I think it's similar to when you write an op-ed and you take a strong position and of course there are gonna be comments that are very easy to make because they're anonymous comments that say ridiculous things, and I think at times you can dive into those comments and think about them, or at times you can think about the broader message and work you're trying to do. And that's really an important skill to develop as you head into leadership positions, and really was great to watch Ally develop that skill very strongly here throughout the semester. 0:47:03.1 MT: Yeah, thank you. Thank you all. I really appreciate everyone, everyone talking about all of this. I've learned so much. Yeah, so thank you so much for joining us today to share more about your college's work to prevent COVID-19. This has been such an incredible conversation and I really appreciate it. 0:47:21.0 TS: Well, thanks for your interest in us and our students and our faculty. We appreciate it, and good luck with the work that you're doing. It's equally as important. [music] 0:47:43.6 MT: Thanks for listening to this episode of Resource On The Go. For more resources and information about preventing sexual assault, visit our website at www.NSVRC.org. You can also get in touch with us by emailing resources@NSVRC.org.